Baptism - Theological

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: Baptism

What I have here is an opinion on Baptism, was ask my thoughts on the subject. If Baptism was part of salvation? If so was conversion not complete till a person was Baptized? Also this was check out by Gene Willis, I wanted to have others imput into this subject as well.

Baptism Study: required for salvation or not.
Going in: I have always held to the position that Salvation is a free gift from God given to man as a gift of love for His creation. That we as Gods creations had absolutely nothing to do with gaining that Salvation. That Baptism was an act on our part to show obedience to the one who had saved us and nothing else. Aligning our lives and conducted in this life with Jesus, God son as a living example of how to live through this life on earth. Normally baptism follows so closely to our conversion that it has become part of conversion.

Now: After doing some studying of the subject in question. As I stated before, Salvation is a free gift from God to man through His son’s death, burial & resurrection to all creation. Baptism is an act of allegiants to Jesus Christ who is the; Father, Son & Holy Spirit. A oneness with a promise God made to man. I do believe a person can & is saved by accepting Christ. If condition are not possible for Baptism to take place a person is still saved by his acceptance of Jesus Christ. At the same time man should be Baptized into the Trinity so that he shows to whom he belongs. While I will continue to teach a baptism by emersion. I don’t believe it is my job to be a critic of how anyone comes to faith but rather to help them along the path God lays for each of us. I will also leave the conviction of a person who has in his or her mind been Baptized up to the Holy Spirit. Least I ever start believing my way is the only way, ultimately God know each mans heart. We must never become so dogmatic in what we feel is required, that we put our thoughts ahead of God. BOTTOM LINE; IT’S JESUS PLUS NOTHING.

NOTES:
As I started this study I started gathering scriptures that prove the point one way. Then I started thinking I should look for others too. After only a short time doing so, it came to my understanding that depending on the point of view. Most any view could be back up by being selective in what was presented. I have also understood for a long time that Gods word doesn’t ever contradict itself. OK so what is the right view. Question: What are the basic’s of being saved? What things or thing is common to all the references? Make Disciples, Believe, born of the Spirit, He was spending time with them, faith; and the list can go on and on. But they all indicate having to believe in God, Jesus. In each and every case their was a personal belief, faith in God first. In Acts we read about the Holy Spirit coming to the elect by tongues of fire after being baptized (these people were believers in Christ when He was with them, so being baptized was almost certainly been done) but in Acts 10 the Holy Spirit was working through these people clearly before they were baptized. Baptism has taken on a better meaning one of promise and ownership. In the world today that idea helps us keep our feet on the ground. As scripture states “We are aliens in a strange land” so to whom we belong. Knowing that helps us understand how we are to act, who we represent.

Gal 3:22-29
22 But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor {to lead us} to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
(NAS)

Matt 28:19-20
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
(NAS)

John 14:6-8
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.
7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."
8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
(NAS)

Acts 2:1-5
1 And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent, rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
5 Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men, from every nation under heaven.
(NAS)

Acts 10:44-48
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
45 And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also.
46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we {did,} can he?"
48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.
(NAS)

Now I used only a small amount of scriptures because I don’t feel it is my right to try to convince anyone of one way or the other. Plus scripture seem to go both ways. But I do feel it’s my responsibility to give you the facts that I find to help you make a more Spiritual decision. God alone has a ability to say thing for certain. I feel anything that hasn’t been set in stone by God isn’t so important that it should effect you for eternity. Bottom line: our faith in Jesus is far more important than anything else. As stated in John 14:1-4.
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GW's Thoughts

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject:

Amen, Greg! Well, said.

One final thought, though, is that a person who is truly saved would probably not ever refuse to be baptized (unless they thought they already were, i.e. baptized as a baby).
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For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. -- Philippians 1:6

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject:

You did help me think of another reason, youthful Baptism. However at the time of the writing my thinking was on a person trying to join a church. But wasn’t able to because in his mind he had been Baptized but under that churches thinking he had not. Reason being he didn’t meant their guidelines for Baptism. At that point I don’t feel his salvation is in question. If anything it would be his understanding of the method of Baptism.
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GW's Thoughts

Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 20 Location: Wichita

I see baptism as the outward sign of the inward Change. When we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, a transformation begins in our spirit. As that Change grows, we have the desire to follow Him into baptism.

Paul
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O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1Cor 15:55-57)

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject:

I agree, Paul.
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For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. -- Philippians 1:6